Curse

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Hello.

They call me Soul, Soul of Seraphs is my full GW name. Pleased to meet you.

I have been, for a long time, against 15^50 for daggers. Now, before you blast my head off with reasons why I shouldn't be, I stand before you with the TRUTH. It may shock you, so buckle your easy chair belt, your going a fast, dangerous, TRUTHERCOASTER! (ok that was awful, im so sorry.)

Please note that this is not an official experiment, but is legit by an oath of honesty

OBJECTIVE

Find which is more useful in the long run: 15^50 or energy+5?

BEGINNING DETAILS

I only had Fifteen(15) points on dagger mastery, No other bonuses to deal more damage or hit critical hits more often.

MATERIALS

Please note: All daggers are equipped with mods that do not give damage bonuses of any sort, other than the inscriptions and if they are or are not customized.

PROCEDURE

All my experiments were on the Isle of the Nameless' 60 armor suits, for maximum damage and clearest results.

I would select my dagger (Bonus: +35, +20, +15 +0) and strike the armor suit 10 times. I would then record the data. Repeat on all bonuses.

I would then try the big one, the one that got my heart pounding. Attack skills. Are attack skills totally affected by 15^50? I used the same procedure with Black Mantis Thrust 10 times on each bonus.

DATA

~Normal attack~

This data is for damage dealt while normal attacking.

BONUS:
+35= 16, 16, 27, 26, 11, 36, 18, 23, 13, 37 Average=* 22.3
+20= 11, 13, 18, 10, 11, 12, 32, 36, 18, 21 Average=* 18.2
+15= 13, 18, 13, 18, 31, 27, 31, 34, 18, 12 Average=* 20.5
+0= 14, 29, 11, 27, 31, 9, 14, 17, 32, 15 Average=* 19.9

DIFFERENCE: 2.4 damage

~Black Mantis Thrust~

I chose Black Mantis Thrust because its a very basic and widely used attack skill. This is for damage dealt.

BONUS:
+35= 37, 41, 57, 36, 32, 37, 57, 35, 51, 44 Average=* 42.7
+20= 41, 34, 31, 41, 35, 52, 42, 36, 42, 54 Average=* 40.8
+15= 37, 51, 35, 49, 41, 30, 36, 39, 41, 34 Average=* 39.3
+0= 30, 36, 31, 52, 50, 49, 30, 38, 34, 37 Average=* 38.7

DIFFERENCE: 4.0 damage

* Hitting critical hits sort of messed the averages up, but regardless I hit an average of 2.2231 critical hits per test. so the data still stands legit, but only by .2231% of a critical hit! Yikes! Please note that averages were double-checked!

CONCLUSION

Unfortunatly theres no denying that theres not much of a difference between a damage +35% bonus compared to a +0% bonus, even on attack skills. I'm sort of relieved about that though, it would be embarrassing to know you've been wrong the WHOLE TIME lol

. Regardless of the data, opinions still stand and will forever be respected. I will forever have the right to use and hold this data as UNDENIABLE PROOF.

Please dont bite my head off!

-Soul of Seraphs

Comments? Questions? DATA BUGS OR FLAWS!? Please feel free to E-mail me at:

[email protected]

...And remember; Souls got yo back!

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Please take a moment to thank the suits of 60 armor everywhere for making this experiment possible.

Bryant Again · Sep 16, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

While it may not be in the appropriate place, this is definantly some pretty cool information. Thanks bro!

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

oh dear, where should this go? :'0 and Ty XD

Dr Strangelove · Sep 16, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Yes, I thought everyone knew that 15>50 is attack damage only. It's a small amount of extra damage, yes, but many combos don't need the extra max energy.

I'd suggest a 15% bonus damage set for normal use, and bring a combo requiring 25e or less. If your combo requires more, add radiant insignias or attunement runes until you can use it.

When you get DP, bust out the +5e daggers, so you can perform your combo again.

Zeek Aran · Sep 16, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Sorry, but I don't think this is very accurate. I think you should do it 100 times each atleast.

Example: Flip a coin 100 times. 80 tails 20 heads. How accurate is that when looking at 50-50 chance?

Jessyi · Sep 16, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Guild Wars is a game of small advantages, not huge ones. Max damage and max defense items are easy and cheap to come by, even if they are common skins and so everyone is offered a common ground that is easy to reach.

The first part, and the easiest part to understand about being good at this game is realizing that nickels and dimes added together become dollars. +9 hp from a sup vigor instead of a major, +1 hp from a perfect weapon mod instead of a +29 one, up to an additional 18 armor on a shield for non-specced casters and 26 for specced casters and warriors. Most people are adamant about not giving up that extra point of life on a weapon, or not equipping armor fully with insignias and appropriate runes, or an extra percentage point on an enchant mod, and so on. Neither would they surrender any additional damage from a weapon that they are specced to USE, even IF your numbers are correct and the difference is only a few points.

The truth is, there is no reason not to have your cake and eat it too. Most good assassins carry 15^50 zealous and 15^50 vamp daggers, both customized so that they can manage their energy by swapping weapons. Assassins don't benefit significantly from additional base energy - they do by using efficient combos, proper use of their primary attribute and by weapon swapping. And why do they do this? Because they know that better preparedness and a willingness to actively monitor their energy makes a better player and a better player never drops a dime.

-Jessyi

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Sep 16, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

ive always used +5 because its ezier to fulfill my chain.

id want to be able to have more energy than acouple extra dmg...

when it comes down to it the 15% more of 17... is like 2 dmg... if u really want more dmg, bring both zealous and vampiric, vampiric when u have energy, thus u can have +3> 2, and use ur combo. this is what i do.

in addition to this, i know many sins like to use energy armor rather than health... so in reality im just making my survibility higher, while lower dmg very lowly, but having the same amt of spike time... so i guess in reality im just lowering dmg(2) to be able to survive spikes/solo better

Aerial Assault · Sep 16, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Because they know that better preparedness and a willingness to actively monitor their energy makes a better player and a better player never drops a dime.

-Jessyi

QFT.

This is why I hate seeing monks with60-70pts of energy. You know who you are, the ones with only 2pips of energy regen cause of the 15/-1 items and WITHOUT a switchoff set.

tongling · Sep 16, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

why long article ?
just use 15^50 on high damage weapons, en+5 on low damage weapons. done.

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

O.o uh oh, hope this doesnt start a war, already getting mixed opinions. meep. And im really truly sry jessyi, but you lost me at "the first part".

Jessyi · Sep 16, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tongling

why long article ?
just use 15^50 on high damage weapons, en+5 on low damage weapons. done.

I'm curious. Why would a damage dealer want low damage weapons?

Keifru · Sep 16, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I'm curious. Why would a damage dealer want low damage weapons?

Because daggers have an inherently small min/max damage. 15% on 7-17 wont boost as much as a 15^50 on pretty much all other melee weapons.

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

I'm curious. Why would a damage dealer want low damage weapons?

Thats like asking "why do sins use daggers?". daggers alone dont hit for crap, and last time i checked, assassins are as close to damage dealers as you can get without dropping your knives and casting some meteors.

so when you ask "why does a damge dealer want low damage weapons?", ask a sin.

And also, if its one thing im sure im good a dealing with in this game, its assassins, and i carry only 1 pair of daggers that get the job done very nicely. carrying 2 sets of daggers may make you feel more prepared, but what it really boils down to is that it may sometime turn into an unnecessary distraction.

tongling · Sep 16, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

O.o uh oh, hope this doesnt start a war, already getting mixed opinions. meep. And im really truly sry jessyi, but you lost me at "the first part".

dont listen all that weapon swapping crap, you are a sin, you swap too much or too often, you most likely get killed by ppl dont swap or miss lots of opportunities to interrupt. Weapon swapping for sin who fast attacking is not so good. en+5 is a lot better than 15^50 for sin. you can't trust your efficient combo, yor combo gets interrupt, you got knockdown, your opponents outsmart you and all kinds of other shat make you really really appreciate 5 more energy. you only need to swap for elemental damage.

soul of seraphs · Sep 16, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Tongling layin down the law and tellin it like it is!

Protagonist Hero · Sep 16, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Soul your good but you won't help a fellow Sin out with farming. Therefore your not a nice player.

Jessyi · Sep 16, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by soul of seraphs

Thats like asking "why do sins use daggers?". daggers alone dont hit for crap, and last time i checked, assassins are as close to damage dealers as you can get without dropping your knives and casting some meteors.

so when you ask "why does a damge dealer want low damage weapons?", ask a sin.

I think you're losing sight of the question here. If weapon classes can be sorted from best to worst according to their weapon's max damage, then everyone should delete their sins, paragons, rangers, and warriors right now and make dervishes instead. Obviously I know that the different classes carry different utilities that make them more useful in the niche they're going to fill.

All assassin's daggers at max damage are 7-17. You'd be an idiot to use non-max weapons (assuming you're not level 5). Yes, assassin autoattacks cannot exert as much pressure as warrior ones - I know that. I know that they're not supposed to. I also know that a 15^50 axe will yeild a higher absolute amount of damage over an unmodded axe than a 15^50 set of daggers will over an unmodded set. That doesn't mean that the lower difference on the daggers is irrelevant.

My argument doesn't even have to refute the evidence that you've provided. Even if you're correct there's still no reason to surrender even a few points of extra damage. Against an equally skilled opponent with the setup I've suggested, you would lose.

-Jessyi

Zeek Aran · Sep 16, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

o.O Does 15^50 only affect normal space-bar attacks??

If yes, then does it boost Shattering Assault?

Master Ketsu · Sep 16, 2007, 05:41 AM // 05:41

I think by low vs high damage weapons I think he ment for other classes...hammers, bows, ect.

15^50 with hammer = win.

Akuma · Sep 16, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

The conclusion is that your math is flawed.